Branden Harvey  0:00  
Like the privilege of having a paycheck from this separate thing, so that I could fund this Kickstarter and 100% of that money went to paying a team is a myth. And not everybody has that. And because of that, a lot of really important and brilliant ideas get left on fulfilled because not everybody has the access that I have.

Cory Ames  0:25  
Is it just me or does it feel like the world needs some real good news right now? Well, we're in luck. Because today on the social entrepreneurship and innovation podcast, I'm speaking with Brandon Harvey, who celebrates the good in the world.

Brandon is the founder of good, good, good. He hosts the podcast sounds good. And he's the editor in chief of the good newspaper, a printed newspaper full of good news. Brandon's built an online community of over 500,000 world changers, has been written about in the New York Times, The Washington Post, Men's Health in Forbes. And at one time, Miley Cyrus even asked to interview him on Instagram Live. Today, Brian and I talk about why he's been so driven to seek out the good in the world. We talk about good news, why it's so essential right now. And how as well, good news, real good news, as Brandon defines, it, helps us to do more good. It's a really lovely conversation. Very excited for you to hear more about Brandon. And good, good, good. Of course, make sure to visit Good good good.co To get your own dosing of real good news, mana excellent work that they're doing over there. But before we jump into this chat with Brandon, I want to invite you to sign up for our Better World weekly newsletter. There's a weekly newsletter that I write, curate and publish myself send out every single Monday to our community of changemakers. And innovators from all sectors all over the world. Go to grow ensemble.com backslash newsletter to join in on that discussion of all that it takes to build a better world that's grow ensemble.com backslash newsletter. Alright, show without further ado, here is Brandon Harvey. From Good, good, good.

Branden Harvey  2:26  
Well, first of all, I'm just super pumped to be here. So excited to get to talk with you. I am Brandon. I'm the founder of good, good, good. And we are a media company focused on the good in the world. And our mission is to help people feel more hopeful and do more good. And I live here in beautiful Portland, Oregon with my partner and my dog. Normally my dog is like sitting right back there. But she is not joining for this conversation today.

Cory Ames  2:52  
She wasn't on the Google calendar invite.

Branden Harvey  2:55  
So yeah, she's been well.

Cory Ames  2:58  
Thank you, Brandon, for the quick introduction, I'd love to start in this area that can seem I think, quite just assumed or implied for folks like us in this space of I'm wondering, where did the desire come from, for you to use your skills, your time, your energy to do work that ideally left the world a better place than you found it? What about your character personality? Or maybe influences in in background led you to seek something out? Like creating good, good, good?

Branden Harvey  3:28  
Yeah, you know, I think it's interesting because all growing up like in Junior High in high school, I remember having role models on the internet, you know, not in my small hometown, who were the common denominator between all the role models was that they were finding a way to make a difference in the world or finding a way to leave the world better than they found it. And what I loved was that they all had like a unique passion or skill that they were using in a particular direction. And that just seemed really attractive to me. And then when I was in high school, I was given a camera like a DSLR because I took a photography class, and I got to like use it and keep it for a whole year, which is like such a cool privilege. And I fell in love with photography. And I started to admire photographers around the world. And I found this one photographer who kind of lived nearby who found her work on MySpace became a big fan of her work on MySpace. And she ended up mentoring me through the process of how to become a professional photographer. And I'll never forget, like she worked so hard to you know, teach me about shutter speed and aperture and lenses and also like, here's how you professionally email a client and here's the best way to deliver you know your work to them. But she was super intentional about also instilling in me this idea that if you have a talent that not everybody else has, you have to use it for good and so she very intentionally like took me out on shoots where we were photographing for good We worked with nonprofits for people who maybe didn't have access to professional photography or different things like that. And very quickly, I recognized like, oh, I have this photography skill, I should be using this to make a difference, because that's the talent and skill that I happen to have is like some punk 17 year old kid in eastern Washington. And even though I'm not a professional photographer anymore, as I've acquired new interests, or passions, or whatever the lessons that car and my mentor taught me, like, continue to stick with me, and I'm just so grateful that like, she hit me with such an early age.

Cory Ames  5:36  
That's incredible. And we kind of skipped over this point, but I'm really interested in one seeking out this mentor, how did you go about finding different photographers work? And what particularly appealed about her as she was at the style? Or was it the substance? And then do you just reach out to her, you'd send her a MySpace message and said, I appreciate your work? Will you mentor me? How did that exchange go?

Branden Harvey  6:02  
It's a good question. I'm trying to think back. So I know for sure, the reason that I became interested in like, seeking out photographers was that I grew up in this small hometown, Pullman, Washington, I love it. It's a beautiful, incredible place. But like small towns sometimes do, like some parts of culture end up pretty stagnant. And so there's probably only a few other professional photographers in town. And all of them had styles that looked like they were stuck in like the 70s. And because you know, there were only a few of them, like that worked really well for them. But really quickly, you know, you go on Flickr one day, and you're like, oh, my gosh, there's all these other styles. And so I started to just maybe get a sense of taste or something. And I found people that I was drawn to, which also really, like, in a fun way, connected me with all these other like, punk 17 year old kids who were in small towns across the country, who were trying to figure out, you know, how they could become creative professionals coming from a small town. And so getting to start connecting with those folks, I think was really instrumental in kind of creating that curiosity and that drive. But then there happened to be one photographer in the area, who did have good taste, it did have a cool style that I was drawn to, and that was current. And so very quickly, I think it was truly just like, you know, I add her on MySpace, and I probably sent a message like, how did you do this shot? Like, how did you like this? Or how did you what lens Eg is, you know, some sort of cheesy question like that. And then she responded, and you know, I probably had another question another question, then she's like, Hey, do you want to meet up and just, you know, meet up at the coffee shop downtown, you know, the one coffee shop, the daily grind? And you can ask me more questions. And then, you know, a month later, I probably got a list of more questions, we meet up again. And so I didn't even know if I ever use the word mentor, until hindsight taught me like, oh, my gosh, she guided me through my whole career, and set me up for you know, the next decade of my life.

Cory Ames  7:59  
Wow, yeah, it's not something that you necessarily name in the moment, the mentor relationship is invaluable. And I think, as well, I just wanted to drill into that point, specifically, just because I imagine that that's something that a lot of people are looking for, while maybe having some curiosities and subject matter. You know, you it was photography, to find people to guide you along that path. This just absolutely absolutely invaluable. And it's interesting that she had that leaning towards wanting to use this skill for some sort of positive capacity. Do you feel like that was just some sort of luck? Or serendipity? Or what do you think there.

Branden Harvey  8:38  
I mean, I would say, you know, probably the reason I was attracted to her work was because she had a sense of purpose in it. So I think that there was some sort of through line of that, like, even before I met her, like, I think she had just come back to my small town, from shooting photos in Afghanistan on some assignment. And the type of photos you create, when you have an experience like that are going to be different than the type of photos you create if you didn't have an experience like that. And so I think I was probably just drawn to, you know, even when she's photographing, you know, something random in Pullman, Washington, her work has been influenced by all of her experience. And I think I was just drawn to that experience. And honestly, if there probably hadn't been a car in in my hometown, that there was a photographer who cared about doing good. I imagine I would have just found a different hobby or passion. When I found a mentor in that area of expertise, who was passionate about doing good, you know, maybe I wouldn't become a graphic designer, maybe I would have become a public speaker. Maybe I would have become a college professor. Like it just so happened that the thing that I was interested in and the person who helped me learn that intersected in the world of social good and impacting your community.

Cory Ames  9:52  
And so yeah, that exactly right there that mentioning you're not too attached to the medium. It seems it could have perhaps spend, I mean, I'm sure you're still fond of photography, but you're not attached to one of those mediums being how you fulfill that kind of ultimate driver aim. It was really that that organized you that sense of purpose?

Branden Harvey  10:12  
Yeah, I really, when I was growing up, I fully assumed I'm going to become a professional photographer. And when I'm 75, I will look like this 75 year old photographer, when I'm 45, I'll be like this 45 year old photographer, like I had that mapped out. And the closer I got to achieving some of those milestones, or I was like, Oh, my gosh, I'm photographing X many gigs per year, or, wow, I have, you know, several cameras and all the lenses that I want, like these things that felt like they were the status quo. When I reached those maybe earlier than I expected, I was like, Oh, that's not the thing that would fulfill me, like, this isn't the thing that I actually care about? So what is the thing I care about? And it was only when I started to maybe branch out from that and start saying, Well, what would it look like if I tried to tell this story? So at the time, I'd really started, like, work with a lot of nonprofits helping shoot photos for them. And I'm like, what I have for this nonprofit, in addition to photography, I am also doing some writing, what if for this one, I'm also doing like a podcast conversation where I film a video or I create, like a kinetic typography, film, like, would that still inspire a sense of purpose and passion and joy for me? And the answer just kept on being Yes, until one point, like I was just doing all these things that I was also interested in with the same purpose behind it, and recognized oh my gosh, like, I'm not even doing photography anymore. Even though you know, my bio, probably still said, photographer, all the other things, were just kind of nudging their way into my life. And then I maybe came to terms with that. It's kind of weird to like, lose that identity to change that bio, on your profile or whatever. But then once I did, I was like, This feels so much. I don't know, it feels so much better. And so now I hold my identity very loosely, but try to hold my purpose boldly and strongly. 

Cory Ames  12:11  
Well, I mean, maybe to have you label yourself, do you despite you not wanting to do you consider yourself a generalist, then?

Branden Harvey  12:17  
Yeah, I mean, I definitely a generalist. I think honestly, I'm at the point where I have a hard time staying in doing one thing for too long. And so I have figured out how to create a work, that I get to do a lot of different things within that. So that my consistent thing, for example, can be good, good, good. But within that, you know, I play the role of a leader or writer, a content creator, a podcaster, a newspaper maker, a designer, I do I play, I juggle a lot of those things. I think it's really creatively fulfilling, but the purpose and the mission behind all of that continues to be God's mission of helping people feel more hopeful, and do more good.

Cory Ames  12:58  
You and I feel quite similar, Brandon.

Branden Harvey  13:02  
Good. Yeah. Well, I feel that.

Cory Ames  13:05  
In hearing that trajectory of experimentation, reflection, it seems so deliberate to me, like a young person, having that level of self awareness, going through that process to try on different mediums of experimentation, thinking through purpose and aim. Was that as conscious as it seems, I mean, it's always easier to reflect back. But how were you working through understanding where it was, was your sweet spot towards addressing the purpose of doing good? 

Branden Harvey  13:32  
Yeah, I, you know, I don't think any of it was conscious at all, I think that the the consciousness was saying, and it's also a huge privilege, I just kept on saying, I want to do things that fulfill me. And I want to do things that make a difference. And as a part of that, I'm going to ask myself again, and again, is this thing that I'm doing, serving those two goals. And when they didn't, I get and because of the privilege that I carry, I was able to say, I'm going to let go of that, you know, it was really weird that people reaching out to pay me for photography, and to say, actually, I'm going to refer you to somebody else. Because it's not like I was loaded or had a bunch of money, but I had enough, you know, money that I could steer that ship in a particular direction, and specifically a direction that may be less money. And I think over time you do that you ask yourself that question enough times, and then you take action steps to, you know, fall in line with your conclusions, and then you can look back on your life and you Oh, like this has charted a very clear path in a certain direction. But I think that only happens for me. In hindsight, I don't think there is a day that I necessarily thought of this future trajectory of my life.

Cory Ames  14:46  
Yeah. And so how do you feel in your capacity, your position your role now? Do you feel like you've gone through all the sorting that you need to do are you comfortable with, as you mentioned, both this balance of a very firm core purpose But as well all perhaps a level of experimentation, different modalities and things that you use to address that. Would you mind asking that again? Sure. So how do you feel now in your current role in capacity with good, good, good? Do you feel like you've done all the sorting that you need to do with this balance of both that the experimentation, the different modalities, you can use different, you know, hats, you can wear, as you mentioned, with maybe this one grounding purpose?

Branden Harvey  15:28  
I mean, yeah, I really do feel like I am more passionate and energized in locked in on a mission than ever. And I mean, it's nice, you know, cook a good is maybe five ish years old, six years old, maybe I need to do that math sometime. But I can look back. And I felt like the purpose was so clear, when we found it. And I look back now and I go, wow, I've learned so much since that I do you think we had a bold mission and a purpose when we launched, but now I can articulate the why behind it. I can articulate what was drawing me to it, because I think a lot of social entrepreneurs are probably creating things based off of intuition. And they have good intuition. And that's what's getting them where they are. But the thing about intuition is, it's hard to communicate to other people, it's hard to bring other people on board. And so no, like we just on boarded two new employees yesterday, who I'm really excited to get to work with. And for the first time, I was like, Oh, I think I can really articulate like, the true vision behind what we do in a way that they could probably go and tell somebody else. No. But for the longest time, it was more so like, you know, maybe I'd have a team member create something. And I'd be like, this isn't quite right. And I think this is the direction to go. But I don't know how to explain it. I think maybe now. So anyway, I say all that to say, I feel like I have grown and learned so much in the last five, six years. And so it's interesting to think about five or six years from now, how I will perceive, you know, 2022, Brandon, and so I don't think that I'm like, done, I don't think I'm like I've reached the final place. I just think I am really proud of the progress and the journey. And I'm also looking forward to it six years laughing at past me again, and I think that'll be fun.

Cory Ames  17:14  
Yeah, I with you. Every year I'm looking back like, oh, man, I knew nothing. But I'd be curious to know, what are some of the things that maybe you did advise yourself when you were founding? Good, good, good. What are some of the lessons that that you learn? And maybe things? If shortcuts were possible for you five or six years ago? What shortcuts might you offer? Hmm,

Branden Harvey  17:35  
I think the best moment of my career was the first time that I got to hire an employee, it was so fulfilling to be like, Okay, we're in a place where we're ready to grow. And the growth is not possible with just me like, that's a really cool thing. And now I get to share this journey with somebody else, you know, have you come on as employed or do at a dumb little startup, like, you have to be a little bit like down for getting wild. And it was really nice to have somebody else who kind of understood like, this is gonna be weird, we're gonna pivot a lot, we're gonna figure it out. But like, it was so nice to be able to talk about that with somebody else. And then she just had so much like talent and skill that I got to learn so much from her. And so if I could go back in time, I'm like, I would have figured out a way to bring on my first team member earlier and bring on more faster because it's so fulfilling to get to bring people into that especially, and other social entrepreneurs and nonprofit founders, I think will, will really resonate. When you have a mission driven organization, and you find people who align with that mission and care about that mission. It's really, really fun to work together and to provide other people that same like daily purpose that you have, like I think about every day during the pandemic, like it has been a challenging time to be a business owner. But at least every day, when I went to work, I was actually helping solve a problem. You know, I wasn't necessarily a doctor or a nurse in a hospital. But I was creating work that I think was caring for people's mental health, and empowering people to care for their communities and create a ripple effect of essentially positivity. And I'm so glad I didn't have to like be I've tried to think like some benign example. But like, you know, it's not like I was just creating something that's money focused and boring. And everyday. It's like, why am I doing this? When there's obviously bigger problems in the world, it was so nice to get to, I don't know, have this purpose and to get to bring other people into having that daily sense of purpose, because it truly is a privilege that not everybody gets to have. And so our team getting to have that, like, I don't take that for granted.

Cory Ames  19:46  
Hmm, definitely. And it seems like as well, as you mentioned earlier, in what you can now articulate about the vision, the mission, the values of good, good, good, versus five, six years ago, there's not really any Greater test than that, and then actually attempting to communicate it to other people. So, team members, especially that you bring on, I think the stakes are even higher than people who don't have invested interest in it. But it is one reason to as well start to build some community around the thing that you do, even if you aren't at a stage to be able to hire your first team members.

Branden Harvey  20:18  
I mean, we first launched on we kind of first launched, like, we kind of like, came out into the world through a Kickstarter campaign to launch our good newspaper, and I didn't have a single employee for that, but I had, you know, probably five friends who all said, I can help you with this thing. You know, one friend was like, I can do the design for your Kickstarter, one friend said, you know, you can pay me a little bit of money to do the video for the Kickstarter, and, and one by one, all these people contributed, and that was the same fulfilling feeling. I just didn't get to spend as much time with them as maybe an employee, but like, I completely agree, like, surround yourself with people who are down to support you. And then also just remember the generosity of those people and find a way to, you know, be generous with them, or pay it forward and be generous with somebody else. Because you've experienced that generosity,

Cory Ames  21:10  
right? It's not necessarily about keeping score, but just deferring to generosity as the opportunities are there. And so what was it like Brandon, to hold that first good newspaper in your hands? Was that an impactful moment for you?

Branden Harvey  21:23  
Yeah, man, it was really special, because it was a concept that I believed could work, maybe should I back up and maybe give some context on what I thought would work. So I cared a lot about this idea of helping people feel more hopeful, and do more good. But at the same time I had recently I launched a podcast before the newspaper. And I'd had this conversation with this guy, Dr. Rick Hanson, who is a neuro psychologist who specializes in the science of happiness, basically. And he was telling me about this concept that blows my mind, where our brains have this internal negativity bias, where bad news sticks to our brains like Velcro, and good news slides right off our brains like a slip and slide. And I was like, Oh, this explains everything. This explains why the news is the way that it is. Because you know, ultimately, I think a lot of news is giving us what we want. Like it's our fault more than anything. It also explains why I've seen other good news related things fail. And it also explains why when I get on Instagram, and I post something, and you know, 100 people like it and 20 people comment, something positive, one person says something passive aggressive. At the end of the day, when I go to bed, I'm thinking about that one passive aggressive negative thing, and not the other, you know, dozens and dozens of people who were kind to me, and so I knew that if we were going to fulfill this mission of helping people feel more hopeful and do more good, we would have to trick our brains. And I knew that if I wanted good news to absorb it into my brain, I would have to trick my brain. And so that was the concept for the newspaper.

I don't even know if I publicly showed that at the time. Or even if I completely knew it, but my intuition was, if you create something weird, like a print newspaper told goodness, hold on, I've got one like, here's a few issues that go this print newspaper filled with good news, people will think it's weird enough that they're going to pick it up. And they're going to be more drawn to it than the bad news newspaper, which again, is going to stick to their brain like Velcro. My thought process was if people spend a little bit of money on it, you know, the newspaper super affordable, but when you give your money in exchange for something, you feel a deeper need to consume it. We also wanted to make sure that it was like beautiful enough that you would want to keep it in your like living space. Like we want people to put this on their coffee table. And then every issue is got like a centerfold poster with something, you know, beautiful and inspiring. It's like, great, Angela Davis, quote, I'm no longer accepting the things I cannot change. I'm changing the things I cannot accept. And to have these reminders around your house is probably a good way to cut through that mental clutter of like, again, your brain is probably a little bit more attracted to bad news. But if you see good news every single time it's hung up on your wall, where every single time it's sitting on your coffee table, that math is going to work out at some point. So anyway, that's the concept here. But it's unproven. It is truly just a dumb idea. And that's why we launched it on Kickstarter, because Kickstarter is a great place for dumb ideas. Because if everybody agrees that it's dumb, it doesn't get funded, and you don't have to waste your own money. You know, I probably wasted a few $1,000 on the campaign itself and getting the video and all that stuff. But like a few $1,000 is way different than 10s of 1000s of dollars. So we launched this thing on Kickstarter. And apparently enough people think it's not dumb idea because we're fully funded within 56 hours, I want to say 72 hours. And then by the end of our campaign, we have more than doubled our initial goal. And then it's a process of figuring out, okay, how do you freaking make a newspaper in the modern day?

You know, I had no experience, you can't go on YouTube, there aren't like YouTube tutorials on how to make a newspaper, because all the people who make newspapers, literally like all of the people that I've worked with in the newspaper industry are like 70 year old men with gray hair. So they're not making like a YouTube video that guides a young entrepreneur on how to do this. But once we figure it out, comes off the printing presses, and I get to hold it while it's still hot coming off of the like, cliche printing presses that you imagine for movies. And it was so beautiful, because it wasn't just my thing. It was this thing that like a community believed in and worked hard to create, and other creative, you know, contributors, wrote and designed and made possible. But it was also still this terrifying moment of is this thing going to work? Like, can this be a viable business? And can this actually help people feel more hopefully Numurkah. Because even if it's a viable business, but it's not fulfilling that mission, like, that's a way it's like, let's cancel this thing. Or on the other end of the spectrum, if it is the most impactful thing in the world, but doesn't make enough money to run it to pay people equitably to bring in diverse talent to contribute, like, then it can't continue either. So it has to do both. And so it was really just this, like, I don't know, it's like you get to the end of the First Lord of the Rings movie. And you're like, wow, like, what a journey, same at Frodo have been on? But like, we know, there's two more movies like we don't know what's coming next. And so it was terrifying and exciting all at the same time is I guess the short answer to your question.

Cory Ames  26:44  
I love that. Well, and thank you so much for the background context, too. I think that's really important to understand exactly where you were. I heard this on another interview you did, in that he kind of thought the opposite of where trends were headed in some way. Because there might be some lessening competition and way a lot of people in traditional media, we're heading to the digital sphere, as you mentioned, another interview. And so why not do something? The opposite of that? And it seems it worked. 

Branden Harvey  27:13  
Yeah. I mean, we because the thing was, we did not have any money. So even on Kickstarter, you know, we didn't raise as much money as any traditional media company would have for a month, you know, we had that to create content for a year. And the year that we launched a Kickstarter, if I remember the data, right, that was the year where the New York Times for the first time made more money from digital revenue than from print revenue, which is huge. And so they were they were pivoting, it's not like we're trying to compete with the New York Times, I've got my New York Times subscription, my Washington Post subscription, etc. But I was like, if everybody has 24 hours in a day, and they're going to go online, and they're going to read a news story. And I know that bad news six of the brain better, I'm going to have to fight so much harder for 1% of somebody's day, on the internet when I'm competing against all these digital giants. So let's go where nobody's going and be the only millennial to launch a newspaper that year, and really try to stand out. And I think it worked too, because we got like all this press, when we launched, a lot of people covered it, they would not have covered it if we launched a blog. Like that's not an interesting story. But it is an interesting story to say that, you know, some idiot in Nashville, Tennessee decided to launch a print newspaper filled with good news. Good luck to him. Like that's generally the concept and very grateful for all that press because it brought us a bunch of new subscribers who said, You know what, I think that this thing is for me, but yeah, it was, I don't know, if that was, you know, maybe in hindsight, we should have gone the direction of where everybody else was going. We did launch a blog with daily good news stories this year, you know, five, six years into running the company. Should we've started that earlier, maybe. But the journey has worked, like we're still in business, and we've found a core community who care about what we're doing.

Cory Ames  29:00  
Okay, you're moving forward, you've been advancing and perhaps the the most appropriate pace that you needed to so it's the right decision for the right time. And so, I mean, you might humbly say that it was just luck and some serendipity that led to the success of the Kickstarter. There's a little bit of novelty in there with but not too much novelty with with doing the print paper. Is there anything else that you think contributed to such a successful launch campaign?

Branden Harvey  29:24  
I think two things so one, a, you know, I'd be remiss to not acknowledge the privilege that I had the privilege of literally not taking a dime from Kickstarter to fund it, because I always forget this part of my story, but like, at the time, I was one of the top Snapchat influencers on the platform, which is so dumb, and I had this, you know, short period of time where I was early on the platform, I was creating unique content. And so because of that, I had brand deals that were basically paying my rent and it was completely separate from this work side. No, you know, I mentioned earlier about this idea of like, assessing like what I'm doing, you know, No fulfilling to me and in line with my mission. And you know, a year into being accepted influencer, I was like, this is in alignment with my mission. And so I did end up like leaving that behind while I still had followers that engagement. But coming back to that, like the privilege of having a paycheck from this separate thing, so that I could fund this Kickstarter and 100% of that money went to paying a team is a myth. And not everybody has that. And because of that, a lot of really important and brilliant ideas get left on, fulfilled because not everybody has the access that I have. So that's one key thing that I would say that I had. The second thing that I had was maybe coming back to that idea of intuition. And it's this idea that I knew what I needed, I felt overwhelmed by what was happening to the world, I felt heartbroken by the injustice of the world. And I wanted something that would remind me that there is good in the world, and that I could be a part of it. And so I just created what I needed. And the great thing was like we never wanted to like had this huge viral Kickstarter, we didn't like it wasn't like the biggest thing in the world, we got a little bit of press coverage. But that same year, another friend launched a Kickstarter that raise millions of dollars, and ours was, you know, in the 10s of 1000s. But because I was really geared in to what I needed, we just found people along the way, who also needed that same thing. And I think like that cannot be understated like this idea that there is a special kind of person in the world, I think, who cares about being reminded of the good in taking action and doing good. And like, that's who I want to hang out with every day. That's who I want to support because that person is me. And so it felt like such a privilege to get to reach that person. And we didn't do it with like market tests and market research and AV testing stuff. We just created what we thought we needed to see. And it worked. And so every step of the way, all the supporters were people who I'm like, oh, I want to ask you for advice, I want to get your feedback on this. And that's continued to this day.

Cory Ames  32:08  
And not to extract maybe too much meaning from this where doesn't need to be extracted. But it seems almost like to go to a print newspaper first, after being in a social media influencing role. It's like kind of a rejection of that to go like, No, I'm going I'm going hard print in a text here. So I like that transition. But it's not wrong. I think that there's a lot of important stuff we can take from that, especially, you know, it's nice, definitely to acknowledge that the privilege that you had to be able to explore this idea while still having a sustained income. But I think that is something that that folks should consider if they're interested in starting a project of their own, you know, a social venture of their own. In that it's nice to approach it a little bit like a hobbyist or an enthusiast, because you become a little bit less attached to the result or outcome that it needs to just sustain your Levine. And so it's difficult, it means that there's going to be maybe some outside time applied to when you know, you might be doing your normal working hours. But at least there's minimal downside on the experimentation kind of like the Kickstarter in itself. You know, if it doesn't work, you just exhausted some energy, perhaps and it could be a bummer. But at least there's not too much investment into it. And as well, if you did it a different path, you may feel the whole kind of sunken cost of like you have to keep going because you've invested in producing this thing. So it seems like a lot there that folks can take if they're interested in in starting up their own thing. 100%. Well, and Brandon, just to transition a little bit more from perhaps the trajectory in the logistics, I'd love to talk about the substance of the work get good, good, good. One of the first things that hits people in the face when they arrive to the website that you said you started just recently, you say right from the get go. It's real good news. Not just feel good news that shall produce so I'd be curious to hear if you could open us up with what do you define it? Good news? What type of good news are y'all reporting on? Good, good, good.

Branden Harvey  34:01  
Yeah. So I think a lot of people like when I'm on a plane, I guess, two years ago, when I was on planes, I didn't sit next to somebody, they'd be like, what do you do? And I'm like, Oh, I share good news stories for a living or I run a media company focused on good news, or, you know, some version of that. And they would be like, Oh, my gosh, well, I've got this great story. Like the other day, my dog, like was hanging out with my friend's cat. And I filmed a video of it. And it was just so cute. Like, yeah, that's good news. But it's not the good news we carry and but there's also a bunch of other examples of like, there are stories that are literally stories that are like, designed to, you know, make you go Oh, or like, that's so sweet that that happened, but maybe aren't tackling real problems. I think of and I don't want to offend people because I think that these are important and amazing, but it is not what we cover is like random acts of kindness, you know, every month or so, somebody It goes viral of, or some news story goes viral of like, oh, the person paid for the person behind them in the line at Starbucks. And that person paid it forward in the chain was 200 cars long. Like, that's amazing. Keep doing that. And it is nice to have like those nice things happen. But a good, good good, we are much more focused on solutions to big problems. Some of the big inspiration behind good was my time as a humanitarian photographer traveling all over the world, and covering pretty heavy stories for nonprofits, covering childhood malnutrition, HIV and AIDS in Rwanda and Uganda and Zimbabwe, covering unethical labor practices in South America. And everywhere that I went, I had to see the problem up close and personal. But it was never left there, which was the really beautiful thing, there were always people who were showing up creating solutions to those problems in those communities. And that's the stories that I got to tell. And those are the stories that I wanted more people to find. It's I think fully embodies this quote from Mr. Rogers, where he said, When I was a boy, and I would see scary things in the news, my mother would say to me, look for the helpers, you will always find people who are helping. And for me with good, cook, good, what I wanted to do was to lean into that quote a little bit and say, you know, Mr. Rogers, mom didn't say like, don't watch the news, or don't see that there's bad news in the world, it's, you know, when you see bad news, look a little bit closer, because you will find people who are helping, and then you know, we want to lean in a little bit more and extrapolate on, you know, maybe some of the unsaid things from that quote, which is, you know, and when you find those people help pointed out to somebody else who didn't notice it, when you find those people, maybe there's a way for you to support them. And when you find those people, maybe that can inspire you to be one of those people as well. And so that's what we wanted to do good is to ultimately be in the business of saying what are the biggest, most heartbreaking experiences of injustice and pain in the world. And then where are those helpers. And so this idea of we share real good news, not feel good news is, we're not here to make you feel good. But we're here to remind you that there are helpers within the heartbreak. And you can join in and be a part of them. And the reality is that there's a lot of like good news accounts on the internet, there's a lot of like good news websites, and almost all of them have more followers than we do, almost all of them have a bigger audience than they do. And I think it's probably because they're leaning into that, like, feel good side of things. And the feeling of stuff goes a little bit more viral. And we have made the intentional decision to not chase that virality. And instead, focus on, you know, this smaller group of people who are our people who are focused on creating solutions to problems and celebrating solutions to problems. And we're never going to be as big, we're never going to be as viral. But I think we feel more fulfilled in our work. And I think that our community feels more fulfilled in our work. And so right out the gate, when you visit our website, we kind of just want to filter that right away. Or like, you know, if you're looking for a feel good, like, it's almost like, here's a list of recommendations, like, go to those places, because all of that is good. There's nothing bad about the field, good stuff. But that's not what we're doing here. So you know, don't waste your time, if that's not what you're looking for today. And it's been really cool to find those people who align with that, even though it's a smaller group of people. 

Cory Ames  38:36  
And so, of course, this is layered throughout our conversation already, and even the answer there, but it just like it much more explicitly. What Why do you feel like it's so important that the world gets real good news right now?

Branden Harvey  38:51  
I mean, yeah, I think there was a time where you could genuinely go through the world and ignore the in justices that were happening. And specifically, I'll back up and say, a certain kind of person could do that a person like me could do that. Because I am not confronted by bad news on a daily basis. There are not shootings that impact my neighborhood, in my family, I have enough food to eat and most of my neighbors have enough food to eat. I am not unjustly targeted by police. Most policies from the government don't directly impact me in a negative way. Therefore, I have a unique ability to tune out from bad news or at least historically have and I think that all said up front, that I think that that's wrong. I think it's important that if you have the privilege of not experiencing bad news, you have the responsibility of working to end the bad news for other people.

But I said that to say that in maybe 2016, maybe 2018 Definitely in 2020 that all started to change where everybody was experiencing bad news. On a deeper level, we became really aware like it was hard to avoid the struggles that Syrian refugees were facing, it became impossible to ignore a global pandemic, it became impossible to ignore the heartbreaking experience of injustice that people of color face in the United States. And because of that, I think it's important that within all of those heartbreaking in justices, the story never ends with just the injustice. Because I think the problem with that is, I know all these people who are just, you know, they're consuming the news all day long. And again, I think it's important to consume some amount of news, but all it would do is just make them more angry, and then more cynical. And then there's nothing to do with that emotion. And i Good, good, good. We believe that you should pay attention to the bad news of the World. And that should be your first step. And you should mourn the heartbreak, you know, there was a school shooting a few weeks ago, and we, we didn't want to brush past it. We wanted to say we don't have stories of helpers yet. But we do want to acknowledge that this is devastating. This is heartbreaking. And it's important to feel that. And then we want to bring people through the journey of okay, but where are the helpers? And maybe the helpers are some first responders. But also maybe the helpers are activists and advocates who are saying, it doesn't have to be this way? What are the solutions to this problem that we can work on from a policy level from a school district level, whatever that is, we'll celebrate them. And then moving people into step three, which is, you know, how can you get if this broke your heart if this bad news story broke your heart? How can you get involved? And I think, to kind of summarize my answer to the question, the I think that this idea of focusing on real good news, and not just feel good news is important. Because if you just push off again, and again, and again, the bad, you are going to implode, you are going to it's all going to hit you one day, and you are not going to be a helpful helper, because you're going to be so weighed down by the bad of the world. And when you take in the bad at the same pace that you're saying, okay, but where's the solutions? And how can I be a part of it? Where's the solutions? Now? Can I be a part of it, you keep on doing that. And it allows you to move from cynicism, or apathy, to hope and action. And I think when we all do that, like imagine what the world could look like.

Cory Ames  42:38  
And so anecdotally, Brian, I'm curious, what do you notice in the community of folks who consume Good, good, good, that type of material y'all report on? What do you notice is different in their experience in in consuming that information, especially with such a deliberate and intentional approach that you described there as to how it is that you address these events, Justices problems? Essentially? 

Branden Harvey  43:03  
Yeah, I feel like the experience for a lot of our community is, is this idea of maybe they, I think about my friend Jamie torque house, he's the founder of to write loving arms. And his book is called if you feel too much. And I was talking about it this week, and you know, maybe a lot of our community or people who, you know, feel things deeply they see something happen in the world. And it's not that they're overly sensitive to what's happening in the world is that they're seeing it for what it is. They're saying, it is devastating that this family had to flee their home country, and is having to make their way across Europe to find somewhere safe to live with their family, and they can't find anywhere, like, imagine if that was meat, like they're seeing it the way the world should see it. And so because they feel things too much, they want a platform that's going to take those feelings seriously. And it's going to acknowledge that pain with them, but then are going to say in the process. But let me remind you that it's not all bad. Let me remind you that there is hope within this heartbreak. And if you don't know where to start on helping this one family on helping this greater systemic problem, here's the action steps you can take, here's how you can get involved in this. I think that's the experience that people are coming for, with goodgoodgood. And that's definitely what we seek to deliver.

Cory Ames  44:19  
It definitely seems like people can leave both feeling more informed, but as well, more empowered, which is definitely contrasted with perhaps how we more conventionally consume news is exactly the opposite. You don't feel empowered, you feel disempowered, and you feel like the world is breaking down and falling apart and no one's fixing it. Really, and so a bit of helplessness. So I really appreciate the work that you're doing so, so much for it. Brandon, I'm curious. Now, you mentioned you think it's still important to consume some news. So I'm curious with a two part question here is first, what are you consuming on A daily weekly basis to stay informed if any news outside of good, good, good, but then to, what do you think is, you know, we don't have to put an exact number on it. But what do you think's the ratio of perhaps, you know, what is the ideal for what someone should look to consume in their news diet? Is it? You know, 100%? All good, good, good style content? Or is it something else?

Branden Harvey  45:22  
Yeah, it's such a good question. I'll start off with what my experience is. But I will begin by saying that I do not think anybody should do what I do. Because my job and some of my team's job is to say, what's the bad news in the world? And then how can we help point people to the good, and then action steps to take, so I have to consume more bad news than the average person does? It. So you know, I think I've got a little bit healthier about how and when I consume this news, but you know, I start my day with some podcasts, some RSS feeds, I've got a subscription to New York Times, Wall Street Journal, Washington Post, I support my local NPR station, like I do all of that, because I'm consuming enough of their content that I should pay for it. And I'm looking around the internet at like different people's perspectives on different topics and finding, you know, people who, you know, maybe I disagree with, or people who have differing opinions based off their life experiences. So I'm consuming all of that, and then trying to distill it into like, which of these stories are probably affecting our community are affecting, you know, the cultural conversation? And then how can we make sure that we're talking about that, and I don't think anybody else if they're not working in the news to do that. And I think, you know, I would also love to hear how traditional newsrooms that don't talk about good news, manage that because I get the benefit of every single time I see bad news, I then get to go look for good news. And then I personally take action and help others take action. So it really does complete that cycle. And it doesn't feel too overwhelming. But I can't imagine being a journalist at a traditional publication, and not getting to do that. So I would actually be curious to learn about that from somebody else. But as far as other people go, I would say, well, first of all, before, you know ratios and numbers, I would just say, intentionality as the biggest thing that anybody can do. Most people don't need to start their day with the news. Start the day by creating something contributing something to the world, doing something that brings you joy, and let that energy carry you through the day. And then decide when you want to consume news. And when you don't. So for example, I don't have any push notifications turned on for news apps, not a single one. So I have to intentionally say, I wonder what's going on in the world, I'm going to go to my RSS feed, or I'm going to go to New York Times homepage and see Did something happen. So I'm not getting inundated with bad news all day long. And I don't think anybody should live by this idea that if there is something really bad that happens, or something really big that happens, let's say you will hear about it at the speed that is proportionate to how big of a deal it is. You know, there are a lot of small news stories happen every day that if you were offline for a month or a week, you would never find out about them. But there are also stories that are so big that, you know, they happen today, four months from now, if you're completely offline, for the next four months, somebody's going to tell you when you come back online, I think about that guy who, you know, in like July or August 2020, he had been living up in the mountains in solitude, he had been alone for years. And he comes down to this small little town to buy like groceries, and everybody's wearing face masks. He's like, what happened, he didn't know that COVID had happened. But he didn't need to because he wasn't interacting with people. He wasn't encountering people. And so the news came to him at the time that he needed it. So I think that's true for most people, you don't want to be burying your head in the sand, and ignoring the injustices that are affecting your neighbors or people who don't share your life experience. But you can intentionally, you know, create boundaries around when you can send the news. And then I always encourage people like, read the news, don't watch the news there is a lot of the reality is there's there's not 24 hours worth of important news every day, I would say there's probably not six hours of important news to consume each day. And so when you're watching the news, you're probably getting a lot of filler content or a lot of ways that are just like expanding this news to take up more time and therefore, brain energy then then, you know, is necessary. So if you read the news story, then you're good. I think one of the cool things about reading a print newspaper, I had a New York Times Sunday subscription for a while. One of the really cool things about that is you get to the end of that newspaper, and you literally have read everything you need for that day. Like you know, of course there's going to be some bias and selection or whatever. But like compared to Twitter, where I could scroll forever and never run out of things to feel anxious about do scrolling. I mean, essentially So figuring out what those limits are whether it's To print paper that has a stopping point or saying, I'm probably just gonna read for an hour, I'm just gonna read all the stories on this homepage. I also think there's value in saying, hey, is this thing confirming a bias I already carry in. So let's go find another place for this. I think there's a few great platforms like ground news and tangle that help you kind of consider other viewpoints when you're consuming the news. And then lastly, to your question about if you should be reading 100%, good newspaper, or 50%, good, good, good. Like I see good, good good as a tool that helps people, you know, follow that three step approach of acknowledging the bad news, celebrating the good news, and then taking action to create more solutions and more good news. But I think every single person is capable of doing that on their own, I would just encourage anybody, you know, you read a story in New York Times, or you're driving, and you hear an NPR story that breaks your heart. First of all, I'm glad that you encountered something real and important in the world, and that you acknowledge that pain on your own, you can start to think, well, who's working to create a solution to this? What nonprofits might be responding what activist might be responding? what are maybe some policy decisions that could be being made by political leaders that respond to this? Let me go do some research and find this? And then how can I support those efforts? How can I get involved? How can I donate five bucks, or volunteer or whatever it looks like, everybody can do that on their own. But if you don't have the time, or the energy, or you're having a hard time, that's when you come to good, because we're going to do that work for you. And we're going to be there to support you. And you know, if you follow us online, or if you get the newspaper, we're gonna deliver it straight to you. But you know, I think somebody can live a really healthy and hopeful life without ever consuming our content, but we just want to make it way easier for people. So I don't think anybody needs to like explicitly fill all of their feeds with good news content, I just think that they need to be intentional about looking for the good within the bad, and then joining in with that good and being a part of it.

Cory Ames  51:57  
It certainly seems like a real antidote to the anxiety that we can feel from that overconsumption is taking action. And it seems like good, good good is the platform to where that the information shared is making it easier to get to that stage, which will have us feel more empowered versus disempowered. Brandon, final question about good, good, good. And then we'll hit a rapid fire question round. what's ahead for us in this next year, we're chatting right now, kind of early 2022? What are some of the priorities and focuses for you and things you're most excited about? Looking forward over this next year.

Branden Harvey  52:31  
And I'm really excited about like the incredible new team members on our team. I think one of the best things about kind of bringing people into your team is that everybody has different life experiences and different expertise on different topics. And I love getting to learn from them and having them share their wisdom with the world. I think about Megan from our team, who at one point, she just got really nerdy about sustainability, and like soil conservation and how to care for soil, like I don't care at all about like the dirt in the ground, but the way that she talks about it, and like creates compelling content about it is like, oh my gosh, I'm learning so much. And I love this and other team members, you know, have different things where it's like, this is like a weird, niche thing that they're passionate about. And they get to communicate about that. It's so cool. So that's personally what I'm excited about. It's just like, learning from my team and getting to work with them. As far as like, good goes, I think we're, we're really excited. Now that we've got the new website, and we can, you know, respond to things a little bit more quickly than we could in the past. In the past, you know, we got to wait for the next newspaper to come out. We're a monthly newspaper. So if something happens, that is today, it's like, well, is this still going to be interesting when this goes to the printing presses, and for weeks. So now that we have the website, we're really excited to just get to respond to things a little bit quicker. My hope is that, you know, when you see a piece of bad news, and you're like, I don't know what to do with this, that, you know, later that day, you might think, Oh, wait, I should check and see what good good is sharing about this. And you'll find something about it on the homepage or in our recently published stories. And just being able to respond to things quicker and help people feel more hopeful and do more good. Faster, I think has a lot of opportunity to respond to problems really quickly. And my biggest hope would just be that we're going to come out of 2022 with some pretty measurable impact on how our community has contributed to the world. You know, what is the big news story later this year that is going to need helpers, it is going to need people to take action and create solutions. And maybe our community might be the community that responds to that the fastest, the strongest, the most boldly because, you know they've been through this journey and that they're a little bit more resilient and hopeful and that hope carries stronger action and the action is going to be deliberate and intentional. Like that's energizing and exciting to me. So that's the hope coming out of 2022 a year from now.

Cory Ames  54:54  
I love it. I'm excited to see how it all unfolds. But let's go to the rapid fire questions here. Brandon to close it out. First, it sounds like you might read a lot of articles. So maybe this doesn't apply to you. But do you have a book recommendation, perhaps something that's impacted you recently or a book you always come back to, that you might share with our listeners

Branden Harvey  55:13  
such a good question. I'm like looking at my little bookshelf right now, I think about a few books that jumped to the top of the list for me time and time again. The first is the book of joy. It is this book of conversations between Archbishop Desmond Tutu who just passed away a few weeks ago, and his conversations with his good and close friend, the Dalai Lama. And these are two people with completely different beliefs about the world. But a shared vision for humanity, a shared connection of joy, and infectious beautiful laughs and I have probably read that book. Half dozen times, at this point, there's an audio book that's gorgeous. There's a print book, I love it. Ah, it's so good, the book of joy, I highly recommend it, it really dives into this idea of like, meaningful joy. It's not burying your head in the sand, acknowledging the pain of our lives and the pain of the world, and finding joy anyway. And then the second thing that comes to mind, which I think might be relevant to your community, as well is I really love this book by Shawn askinosie. He's the founder of asking us you chocolates called meaningful work. And he's just been so intentional, made him on the podcast years ago, and I just could not stop, you know, diving into this experience. But like, he is intentionally created a company that sets boundaries on what success looks like, they could have scaled to be this huge chocolate company. But he's like, but then I wouldn't know, you know, all the names of my employees, then I maybe couldn't ethically or sustainably sourced our chocolate, then maybe I couldn't, you know, give everybody you know, time off for the holidays or pay everybody well, so we are going to intentionally stay this size. And when we are growing, it's going to be growing in the things we care about, which isn't necessarily the bottom line. It's workplace satisfaction, its mission, it's making a difference in the world. And sometimes in entrepreneur world, when you're on the internet, you see a lot of traditional entrepreneurs talking about some of those like bottom line numbers, and it's really encouraging to see somebody who's really successful, talking about what true success really is. And also he had a former career as a lawyer turned almost monk, it's fascinating. Anyway, those are two books I keep coming back to recently.

Cory Ames  57:35  
Those are great ones. Awesome. Next one for you. What's a daily habit or morning routine that you absolutely have to stick to, if anything,

Branden Harvey  57:43  
oh, man habits are hard for me. But I have been really intentional about not using my phone in the mornings at all, I leave it plugged in till afternoon. Part of that is just you know, the positive experience of I don't leave my house, I'm working from home during the pandemic. But even when I was bike commuting to an office pre pandemic, I would just keep my phone in my backpack, I wouldn't check the notifications all until later in the day. If anything's important, you know, I'll see it on my computer that'll like push through my notification filters. But by not checking my phone, it just sets up my whole day for success. I don't get stuck doing something that isn't productive, or isn't in line with my goals for the day. And so it kind of has this ripple effect on everything else in my life.

Cory Ames  58:26  
Is it strictly the phone? Or do you have same sort of practices with maybe distracting sites like Twitter or LinkedIn or things like that? 

Branden Harvey  58:34  
Yeah, I really do think like, the phone affects me in a different way. Like just like scrolling on Twitter, so fun on a phone. But it's not quite as fun on a computer. It's a little different. But I also have a ton of like app. So I block a bunch of stuff on my computer for exactly that reason, where it's like, I've got to like, you know, solve a problem are something to unlock this site, if I'm doing it before x time or something like that. So all of that I think it's all a little bit the same. But it's something about the phone just feels so much worse for me.

Cory Ames  59:05  
Yeah, especially starting your day with that being the first thing that you reach to it really kind of sets a different tone to it.

Branden Harvey  59:12  
Yeah, buying a physical alarm clock is like, if you don't have a physical alarm clock, like everybody should just like, go buy one. I've had mine for like 15 years now. And it's just like, I never have to look at my phone to turn off my alarm and it helps. 

Cory Ames  59:25  
Good tip there. And next free. Are there any particular organizations businesses are individuals who you think have been doing some really exceptional work lately in the space of doing good that you think are deserving of a plug here?

Branden Harvey  59:40  
This is the hardest question for me, because I literally get to see it every day. I love this. But I mean, this is a popular organization, but I can't help to mention them. I am just so impressed by World central kitchen created by Chef Jose Andres. They do the same thing that I grew up loving like I was taught If you are a photographer, use photography for good. And they're saying there's dozens of chefs in every city no matter where you go, whether it's New York City or Haiti, or, you know, a border of Syria, like there are professional and amateur chefs who live here, and what if we give them the infrastructure to make a difference when shit hits the fan? What if we, you know, set them up for success to provide food after some sort of tragedy, and they do it in such a thoughtful way where they're like, we're gonna buy food from local markets, we are going to, you know, work directly with local folks so that everybody's getting benefits here. But it's almost like a running joke. Good, where again, our job is to look for the help. And so we see a piece of bad news. And I'll refresh it. I'm like, oh, world central kitchen is already there, like this news hit two hours ago, and somehow they're already cooking, you know, nutritious meals outside of, you know, this ground zero, somewhere in the world. I'm just so impressed with their ability to do that. It's almost comical how impressive they are. So I'm always drawn to them, because they are true helpers.

Cory Ames  1:01:10  
That's incredible. And last one for you, Brandon, what's one piece of advice that you might leave our listeners with? These folks are social entrepreneurs, changemakers, all sectors, all over the world, trying to leave the world a better place than they found it.

Branden Harvey  1:01:23  
You know, this is maybe unconventional advice. But I would encourage you to make sure that you have friends who don't care at all about what you do. You know, I think sometimes in this little like social entrepreneur world, we get pretty insular. And we get pretty focused on, you know, some of these nerdy things that we all care about as changemakers. And it's really nice to have friends who, you know, they're supportive of me, but like, they don't know what we did this week, they probably didn't see our social media posts, like they just care about me for who I am. And for that, I feel very grateful. And to have that space outside of your work, I think puts a lot of energy into the work that you do. And I wish that for everybody, you know, find somebody that you can connect with just some other random nerdy thing that's not related to work. And I think you're gonna find a lot of success removing

Cory Ames  1:02:13  
200 Plus episodes, and I have not heard that bit of advice shared. So

Branden Harvey  1:02:18  
that's the advice I needed. It's hopefully it's helpful for somebody else.

Cory Ames  1:02:22  
I think it's great. And finally, Brandon, where's the best place to keep up with you? And good, good, good.

Branden Harvey  1:02:27  
I would love it. If everybody came in, you know, found a good news story they're passionate about on the website. And if you're really you know, if you love it, if you think somebody else will love it, share it with somebody, a really great way to do that is subscribe to our email newsletter. And we also have a really fun, beautiful Instagram, all of which are just filled to the brim with ways to feel more hopeful and do more good.

Cory Ames  1:02:49  
Lovely. All right, we'll have all things good, good, good links in the show posts that social entrepreneurship.fm Thanks for thank you

Branden Harvey  1:02:56  
so much, Cory. This is so fun.

Cory Ames  1:02:59  
Alright, y'all, that's a wrap on another episode of the social entrepreneurship and innovation podcast as always so grateful to have you listening in. If you love the show, please leave us a review on Apple podcasts or hit subscribe wherever it is that you get yours. And as well. I want to invite you to sign up for our Better World weekly newsletter. This is our weekly discussion with our community of social entrepreneurs and changemakers on all things building a better world is a newsletter I write and publish send out myself every single Monday go to grow ensembl.com backslash newsletter, to join in on that discussion, all things building a better world. Go to grow ensembl.com backslash newsletter, to get the next one in your inbox. And finally, if you know of a company work within a company or run a company that might be interested in sponsoring the social entrepreneurship and innovation podcasts, we always love starting conversations with potential partners who share our vision of building a better world together. Go to social entrepreneurship.fm backslash contact. There you can fill out a quick form, start that conversation with us. These sorts of partnerships fuel our mission to build a better world together. Alright, y'all, until next time